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A pred killing not armed civillians? |
WorldsMostVenom...
Rank: Survivor
Posts: 97
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 Posted on: 2002-06-20 23:19
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On 2002-06-20 11:15, Nealith wrote:
And as to their similarities to Klingons...after much debate, my friends and I here in Ottawa came to the conclusion that the Predators are modeled mostly after ancient japanese samuri style honor, and the Klingongs are modeled after the Vikings codes of honor. What do you guys think?
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A friend of mine from Sweden has that same theory about the Preds! He actually models his gameplay after it. Makes sense to me, except for one thing...Samurai were part of a feudal system, their purpose to protect the lord they were bound to and their property. I'm not sure there's as much centrality in Pred society...and the Samurai weren't really hunters in any way.
I don't know a whole helluva lot about Klingon anything. Though I vaguely remember both they and the Vikings having a big fixation on glory and reputation.
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Nealith
Rank: Survivor
Posts: 77
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Posted on: 2002-06-21 10:29
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You have a point about the Samurai. While Predator culture may not be a feudal system (althougth the idea of a Predator Emperor is kinda scary) each clan, tribe, or whatever groups their society is divided into probably do have individual leaders. In the CCG, the High leader was called the High Adjudicator. He was advised by wise old "Honored Elders" who had past their prime hunting years. Every group hunt was lead by a Predator dubbed the "Huntmaster". Whether Huntmaster was a permanent rank or was decided each hunt was never revealed. In any case, the mature hunters of a particular tribe probably do swear loyalty to their respective leader, and his property probably is the tribe's property. If Predators are truely nomadic, the leader is probably the captain of their mothership. Since the individual hunters need this ship as a home, a place to put their trophies, encounter females, and heal wounds, a Predator hunter could easily end up treating his leader and his ship as a Samurai treats his lord and his propety. At least, until the Predator leader grows weak, and it is time for him to step down...
As to klingons, I can tell you that I've studied Viking culture alot, and there are alot of similarities. The worst of both cultures is a battle hungry pirate (such as the Vikings are typically portrayed, as well as most of the earlier Kingons, from the original series) and the pinnacle of both cultures is a proud, accomplished hero of a warrior (many of the Viking heroes aren't all that different from Worf or Martok)
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Cliff
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Posts: 1211
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Posted on: 2002-06-21 14:10
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Well if memory serves me correctly in Predator the movie the predator only activated his self-destruct after Arnie didn't kill him. Imagine a squirrel kicks your ass but at the end he leaves you alive why because you are not a worth killing. Oh one more thing about the killing themselves if I remember correctly when the elders see a pred as weak they would well stop him from breeding by cutting something off so I would also kill myself.
In The book AvP: Hunters Planet the predators work well as a military group so perhaps the Samurai thing could fit in there. The preds also have a homeworld and in my opinion is only seen as nomadic because they hunt on various worlds and I don't see how they would be able to go home after every hunt.
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wooshy
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Posted on: 2002-06-23 12:48
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where can ig et the predator comics & books ive neva read any of them
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AlienSlof
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Cliff
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Posted on: 2002-06-23 14:06
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Not to many places I can buy the AvP related Comics here but atleast I have almost book so I'm happy. 
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}{elios
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 Posted on: 2003-03-17 16:31
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Preds are basicly, Meconized killing machine with no intention to give a Fuck about what their killing,
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Shadow Drone
Rank: Death Bringer
Posts: 270
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Posted on: 2003-03-19 20:35
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Thats not quite true they have the honour code. The only thing that would prove that preds would kill unarmed people is pred 2 when he is on the train kills a bunch of passengers.
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Preliator
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Posts: 327
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 Posted on: 2003-03-19 20:50
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I swear by my queen trophy I have Never killed an unarmed civilian, with one exception, when some bitch manages to hit me with a motov that pisses me off, if they miss i still wont kill em. As for honor, I too have always concidered it similar to a samurai's, the hunt is just that 
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TheBlackCat
Rank: Dominator
Posts: 538
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Posted on: 2003-03-19 22:22
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Remember in pred 2 EVERYBODY in that train car was armed.
I feel we got some indications of pred code of honor in pred 2, such as not killing the kid or the pregnant woman, and also where the pred clan leader allowed glover to live and gave him a reward for winning the battle.
But yes, some of the comics definitely go much deeper into the pred culture, especially the AvP comics. The batman vs pred comics also tend to go a bit deeper than the average pred comic into culture, but not too deep (actually they are at a similar level to pred 2 culture-wise, especially the first one).
I think the pred "honor" code is more of a way to judge how valuable your kill is. It seems the pred culture, pred status, is based on your kills. The tougher the kill, the higher its value. So a killing tough foe, or killing a foe using weapons that are judged to be "inferior" to the weapon your foe is using (such as wrist blades or a spear against a machine-gun) both get you a lot of points. Killing a foe with a far superior weapon (such as a plasma rifle versus a pocketknife) would either not count much or even count against you. Matching a foe's weapon like the pred seemed to do a lot in pred 1 seems to be the "normal" thing to do, and against tough foes like us special forces the tough foe part comes into play, making it an honorable kill. Even in pred 1 dutch noticed the pred was only killing tough targets. Rember, you can't raise your rank if your dead, its probably unrealistic to expect pred honor to go to such an extent that the pred is likely going to die. This whole fighting tough foes and sparing weak ones seems to be the real core of the pred honor system. There are some other rules that have come up but really that seems to be the core of it. I know what the preds do would not be considered "honorable" in our culture, but that seems to me to be the best way to describe how they operate. And I think it is possible for a pred to kill an unarmed civilian if that civilian is really tough. The pred, of course, would kill using hand-to-hand combat only, but I think it is perfectly acceptable for a pred to do that. The whole matching weapons would still have to apply, and it would still have to be a tough opponent (maybe a football player ,or a boxer like in batman vs pred).
You can order almost all the comics and trade paperbacks from www.tfaw.com, that is the official online seller for Dark Horse Comics (the company that made all the alien and predator comics). I probably got 1/3-1/2 my comics from them. The rest of the comics I got from a couple local comic books stores and the rest of the trade paperbacks I got from local bookstores and amazon.com Amazon.com does not carry comics, only a few of the trade paperbacks (which are collections of comics). TFAW carries almost everything, but the trade paperbacks tend to be a bit more expensive (amazon.com has the discount). www.darkhorse.com will automatically add comics to your shopping card at tfaw when you click on the "buy now" button at the bottom of each comic page. Go here for an (almost) complete list of pred comics, and here for an (almost) complete list of aliens comics. A few crossovers are not listed in that directory, do a search for them at TFAW. The problem with this all is shipping. If you are just starting out, you are probably better off getting comics from a local comic book store. All the stores in my area carry aliens and predator comics, so yours probably do too.
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Shadow Drone
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Posted on: 2003-03-19 22:48
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Yea they all had guns but they put them away before the pred bursted into the train car. But then again they probably pulled them back out to fire at the pred.
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TheBlackCat
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Posted on: 2003-03-19 23:42
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btw when was predator 2 released in theaters (the day or month)? And how long before the release would you say they probably stopped filming? Sorry to get off topic.
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Shadow Drone
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Posted on: 2003-03-20 06:33
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No idea. Why did the pred help Danny Glover with the columbians?
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TheBlackCat
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Posted on: 2003-03-20 11:47
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I think the colombians were just targets for the pred, the fact that glover wanted to get rid of them and the pred killed them was more that they were really dangerous, not that the pred was conciously trying to help anyone.
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Shadow Drone
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Posted on: 2003-03-20 14:58
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Well that is true but it seemed like he was trying to help because maybe he liked the bravery that Glover showed on the battle field. The pred seemed to be assesing the situation then he could have sided with the more honourable combatants. Either that or tracking a very good prey item.
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Preliator
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Posted on: 2003-03-20 22:11
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Hey u two ever try reading books? hmm, they tell you a LOT about pred honor and culture, try reading the novelized version of P2 hopfully then u will understand all that sh*t  
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TheBlackCat
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Posted on: 2003-03-20 23:13
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I've read the pred and AvP comic novels as well as almost all of the pred and AvP comics. I have not read the movie novelezations, though. The problem is some people here do not really consider the novels and comics dogma, a completely understandable opinion, so I am trying to go with the movies alone here. Some of the comics and novels definitely go very deep into pred culture.
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Shadow Drone
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Posted on: 2003-03-21 13:45
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Yea I have read many books but in the case of Preds there was no need for me to read them. The movie was plenty for me. All the things I post are my point of view.
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NiteStalker
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Posted on: 2003-03-21 19:50
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i cant remember where, but i once read this about preds:
"When it (yuatja) joins a hunt, it wants to keep the fight real, but not to real."
in other words, it tries to even it out so that the opponent has a chance, but not a big one. hows that for sportsmanship, huh?
preds have a different perspective from us. their idea of honour is different from ours. If something is a threat, it is a worthy opponent. if its not a threat, leave it. armed or unarmed is nthing - a black-belt 9th degree martial artist could kill someone with a single hit or kick if they wanted. without weapons. he is unarmed, but definitely a threat. in that case, the pred woud probably engage in hand-to-hand combat, unarmed, for a very honourable trophy. a Green Beret sniper with a state-of-the-art sniper rifle, that is dangerous. the pred would probably cloak and snipe. dishonourable? mayber from our point of view, but isnt it basically what that sniper was doing - hiding and sniping? fair enough. they like to make it seem even, while giving the opponent the smallest chance possible without it being zero.
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Shadow Drone
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Posted on: 2003-03-21 20:22
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Yea I have heard the same thing. But it seems that there wasnt much of that going on in the movies.
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