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Matrix MAX units?? Did they rip off Aliens??


Forum: AvP Universe
Everything that makes up the worlds of Aliens, Marines and Predators.
Topic: Matrix MAX units?? Did they rip off Aliens??
Total Posts: 40

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

Of course I don't belive everything I read. That is absurd, I feel insulted that you would say that. You scold me for "believing everything I read", then expect me to believe what I read from you? I find that extremely ironic and contradictory. That's a low blow, something I don't expect to see in a civilized discussion. When you start getting away from evidence and towards personal attacks things are going badly IMHO. You completely ignore how reputable a given source is (the source I gave being a very reputable one). Of course, you can't go on how reputable a source is alone. However, if a source has proven to be very reliable, and the information it gives is the same as several other sources, and all the sources agree with everything I have learned up to this point, does not go far beyond what I have already learned, and doesn't seem illogical, I tend to believe it. I am not just basing it on that site, that site just happened to be the most convinient source. I am basing it on that site, as well as some other sources. I tend to believe relatively little, but I have two sources to pick from here, am I supposed to believe what I read on a well respected website like that or a forum like this? Would you consider a well-respected and well-research website or some post on a forum more reliable? If there is a problem with my source, that's fine, say why the source shouldn't be believed, or why I should believe your source more. But before you do, I have a few more sources for you to consider.

Here, from my college physics with calculus textbook (University Physics by Young and Freedman):
Quote:
Thus when either an electric or magnetic field is changing with time, a field of the other kind is induced in adjecent regions of space. We are led (as Maxwell was) to consider the possibility of an electromagnetic disturbance, consisting of time-varying electric and magnetic fields, that can propagate through space from one region to another, even when there is no matter in the intervening region. Such a distrubance, if it exists, will have the properties of a wave, and the appropriate term is electromagnetic wave. Such waves do exist; radio and television transmission, light, x rays, and many other kinds of radiation are examples of electromagneitc waves.


So there you have it. The magnetic fields you are talking about are everyday electromagnetic waves, including radio waves. It goes on to say that radio waves are caused by oscilatting electric charges, which create oscillating magnetic fields in the surrounding space, exactly as you described EMP's. It also says radio waves exert forces on free charges in conductive materials, inducing an oscillating current. That is how EMP's work, they are massive radio pulses that induce massive oscillating currents in conductive materials.

I managed to find a 1997 US House of Representatives Committee on National Security hearing on the US vulnerabilities to an EMP attack at this link. According to that hearing, the nuclear weapon must be detonated at least 40 km in the air to generate an EMP effect, so the EMP cannot be generated at just any altitude. It also said an EMP will affect any conductive material, including metal armor, pipes, trains tracks, power lines, etc. It also said nuclear EMP's are in the 1Hz to 1GHz range, which includes radio waves and low-frequency microwaves. Here, a direct qoute from the house subcommittee hearing:

Quote:
As Drs. Ullrich and Smith pointed out earlier, the most common usage of the term ''electromagnetic pulse'' refers to the complex radio frequency wave form generated by a nuclear device being detonated in the atmosphere. This is also known as high-altitude EMP, or HEMP.



Dr. Ullrich is the deputy director of the Defense Special Weapons Agency, and Dr. Smith is the director of the Applied Physics Laboratory at John's Hopkins University. I got the article off the US house of representatives website. I think this is probably a pretty reliable source.

Crazy Alien Lord
Rank: 8
Posts: 1800

two things

one: Razor tech. get your brother to make an account for himself. its hard anough to understand what you are talking about without two of you. no offense meant. i just get confused anough when reality is thrown out the window by you.

two: another comment like
Quote:
Do you believe every thing you read? I think so considering you still believe that site.


and i will be deleting your posts on these forums. two more comments like that, that i see, and i will be recomending you to be kicked.

this is a warning.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

Hey wait a minute you think Im trying to insult people, no I'm not and I don't mean this rudly but maybe you should delet your posts sometimes because they can be down right rude sometimes. Okey now lets drop the subject and get back to what this forum was for in the first place, if the matrix riped the power suits from AvP. I dout it because of the amount of games with them in it already.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

I'd just like to point out one thing about the altitude, if it was detonated any lower it would destroy every thing on the ground under it thats why it needs to be that high or it rains radiation on people.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

Okay lets finaly solve this, i finaly know what you meant and it was totaly deferent than I thought at first, your saying both EMP and radio waves are a type of magnetic field, i thought at first you said they where exacly the same thing.

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

According to one of the scientists at the meeting the EMP only occurs after detonations greater than about 40 kilometers in the atmosphere.

Quote:
When the detonation occurs at high altitudes, greater than about 40 kilometers, the gamma rays directed toward the Earth encounter the atmosphere, where they interact with air molecules to produce positive ions and recoil electrons called Compton electrons, after the man who discovered the effect.

EMP is produced by these charge separation and charge acceleration phenomena, which occur in the atmosphere in a layer about 20 kilometers thick and about 30 kilometers above the Earth's surface.



You can look at the link if you want to read the whole thing. Basically, the actualy EMP generating phenomenon takes place in a band from 20 km to 40 km high. Considering he says the detonation must take place more than 40km high, I assume he is saying that the bomb must be detonated above this band for the effect to take place, but that is just what I am gathering from what he is saying.

Edit: EMP's ARE radio waves. They are the same, EMP's are a type of very powerful radio pulse, just like those scientists from the meeting stated. If you didn't see my quote before, here it is again:

Quote:
As Drs. Ullrich and Smith pointed out earlier, the most common usage of the term ''electromagnetic pulse'' refers to the complex radio frequency wave form generated by a nuclear device being detonated in the atmosphere. This is also known as high-altitude EMP, or HEMP.


Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

There not averag radio waves thats what I meant by not exacly the same. I know there more powerfull radio waves It's my brother who thinks there not.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

I keep buging my bro to get his own acount so from now one he wont post until he gets his own, there wont be any more confusion

Crazy Alien Lord
Rank: 8
Posts: 1800

glad that this is all settled.

TIKI
Rank: 0
Posts: 1176

Hmmmm maybe the EMP ideia was not such a good ideia at all? (i should have had this settled )

WCAYPAHWAT
Rank: 0
Posts: 1

ok, about the APU's, from what i've seen, theyre more like the powered armour of the Mobile Infantry from Starship Troopers (the novel, or game). belt fed ammo has continuosly been improved, and nowdays only jams just as much as any other weapon. accuracy wise, did anyone notice how many of their shots missed anyway? about the EMP bombs in the dock idea, like they said in the dialogue, it will take out their comms and defenses. last and not least, it was just a movie, the mechs dont have to be believable. like, is it totally realistic for people to be running around in a computer program blowing stuff up all day? i mean, damn, they could get wiped out by a virus scanner within 5 minutes. thats just my tw cents worth on this subject

Prezes
Rank: 9
Posts: 896

Being some what of a nerd for anything in terms of Hi Tech stuff [especially military]......

Any nuclear explotion causes an EMP pulse. In the early atomic tests the found that their radios did not work for some time in the area of the explosion. This has then be researched and testeded until the EMP weapon has been developed. The original technology is still a nuclear explosion in the 40km altitude as pointed out by TheBlackCat, but it also stems from the research into taking over enemy land.
With a conventional nuclear attack, you kill the enemy, destroy everything and make the land un-inhabitible for thousands of years. EMP at 40km provides the best signal-generation for the distruction of electronic equipment whilst negating the radio-active fallout effect [as it's all absorbed by the outer atmospheric layers. For the same purpose the Nutron bomb was invented.
Since then, [end especially in the last 15 years] research has been developing means of generating an EMP for military aplications without the use of nuclear explosions.

EMPs are generated in many electrical circuits, however their intensities are very low.


As to the Matrix, they needed visualy distinctive scenes....
Like in most films/TV programmes, the writer are rather limited in their ability to write a good tacticle good story. To get those, you have to read people like Dale Brown and co....

They could have saved allot of hasle by taking EMP generators to the machines. Build couple of drones with couple of EMP generators each, fly them to the machines and keep hitting them with the pulses. That way fewer would get to the human city.

Similar things happen in Star Trek, if only they used their technology properly they would not get them selves into trouble and therefore we would have to watch how they get thems selves out of it.

Prezes
Rank: 9
Posts: 896

Oh, I almost forgot.


You cant stand under a nuclear explosion and survive the heat & pressure wave. Altitude detonations, eg 500ft, showed that at ground zero no damage occured.

As for EMP nuclear weapons, James Bond: Golden Eye did this topic quite well.

SM
Rank: 8
Posts: 241

To get back on topic ever so slightly, the Mecha things in Matrix are quite reminiscient of Ripley's power loader. I heard a review of the film on radio, and the people talking about it all likened the Mechs to power loaders.

Mind you I think they owe more to Japanese animation, like the old Robotech/ Macross stuff.

Preliator
Rank: 0
Posts: 327

Quote:
I'd just like to point out one thing about the altitude, if it was detonated any lower it would destroy every thing on the ground under it thats why it needs to be that high or it rains radiation on people.



Ok first off about the EMP, its a f*cking radiation wave, it disrupts everything from ciricuts radio waves and electricity. Now, that said, the higher you set off a nuke the wider the area radiation will rain down upon, it doesn't just dissapear. A nuclear bomb always, yes ALWAYS, generates and EMP but like I said, its not very effective unless set off from faily high up(otherwise everything you EMP gets blown up anyway)
Also a nuclear bomb blows up little to nothing UNDER it, thats right people it goes sideways and up, you can still go see the dome in Hiroshima that the nuke went off above.

~Have a nice day~

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

Thats the strange thing about nukes, they almost do nothing at ground zero, its the same with hydrogen bombs i believe.

Prezes
Rank: 9
Posts: 896

Hydrogen bombs are essentially normal nuclear devices.

The core, hoverever, is inriched with hydrogen, the physics of the explosion means that the power is drasticly increased by this.

The Russians are the ones that developed this techonology and are acredited with the most powereful nuclear detonation in mans' history.

After that, the nuclear super powers decided not to test ever more powerful weapons as the theoretical limit for hydrogen bombs is soo great, that it would probably cause significat damage to the earths' tectonics plates. (ie cause earth quakes all over the place).

This is why I never understand the dissaster movies where they don't have powerful enough bombs to destroy an comet. Just buy a bomb from the Russian and detonate it next to the comet to move it off course. Simple.

Preliator
Rank: 0
Posts: 327

Yes, Hydrogen bombs, and other nuclear devices dont do even close to the ammount of damage when detonated at ground zero. Think . . . really big crater . . .
You are partially right prezes, that is one of the effects it might have. More effects include a giant radioactive gas cload that encircles the earth, and we freeze to death. Or better yet it destroyes the ozone layer completely and we all fry. Supposedly it could also mess up the rotation of the earths core and send our planet hurdling in many different directions.
it could mess up earths gravitaional field, do I have to go into that one?

The conclusion? Nukes = very harmful to everyone.

APUs are they rip offs of the stupid looking thing in Aliens?
hell no.
fist of all, anime (for all ye ignorants anime is Japanese Animation) came up with mech type things first. Many many many years before Aliens. Also Mechawarrior would be ripping them off, and xenogears, and every other video game you can think of. Now past all that. They really dont look that much alike other than two arms and two legs.
As for all that stuff about how the guns are on the arms and are belt fed? They are staying true to the anime they are based off of. Yeah you heard that right T H E A N I M E. uh huh thats right, Aliens might have RIPPED OFF MATRIX!
So,how you like them beans?.

~My best friend is a cat named godzilla, no you cant pet him~

the_demigod
Rank: 9
Posts: 1759

Quote:
Hydrogen bombs are essentially normal nuclear devices.

The core, hoverever, is inriched with hydrogen, the physics of the explosion means that the power is drasticly increased by this.

The Russians are the ones that developed this techonology and are acredited with the most powereful nuclear detonation in mans' history.

After that, the nuclear super powers decided not to test ever more powerful weapons as the theoretical limit for hydrogen bombs is soo great, that it would probably cause significat damage to the earths' tectonics plates. (ie cause earth quakes all over the place).

This is why I never understand the dissaster movies where they don't have powerful enough bombs to destroy an comet. Just buy a bomb from the Russian and detonate it next to the comet to move it off course. Simple.



The russian scientist who invented the hydrogen bomb had the idea when eating a poppy-seed cake, which has a circular structure of mcake encirkling ever-larger layers of poppy-seed mixture.

Also, the Russians were reported to have suffered one or a few "accidental" chain reactions, slighlty reducing the number of scientists working on nuclear projects...

The race in the 1970's and 1980's wasn't UP in size of the bombs, but DOWN--all the way to suitcase nukes [that were a byproduct of actually developed tactical nukes that could be fired from stationary mortars to give the generals on the ground that "much needed opposition cleaning capability" without requiring expensive B52 excursions.

SM
Rank: 8
Posts: 241

Quote:
uh huh thats right, Aliens might have RIPPED OFF MATRIX!
So,how you like them beans?.



I'd sya they're kinda stinky. Since Aliens was made something like 10 years before The Matrix...

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