AbsoluteGamerzNetwork
Absolute Gamerz

Matrix MAX units?? Did they rip off Aliens??


Forum: AvP Universe
Everything that makes up the worlds of Aliens, Marines and Predators.
Topic: Matrix MAX units?? Did they rip off Aliens??
Total Posts: 40

Da'Yeyinde
Rank: 8
Posts: 392

Hi All,
Here is a new topic for you.
I just saw on DVD the last Matrix movie.. now besides lots of other problems with the films. Who saw the simularities of the walking Mech type robots the humans used against the sentinels to the MAX units OR the loading dock machine Ripley used to take out the queen in Aliens??

You would think that with a hundred years to prepare for a war with the Sentinels they would have come up with a better design than ape armed exo skeleton type machines that had guns that had to be held instead of mounted on the shoulders or back and externally fed rounds that got flung around like a flaminco dancer's skirt.
The armed forces of today have cannisters that feed the ammo directly into the chamber. if this is soo advanced why not have that technology.
AND why was the command center not protected by a Faraday cage (it protects the electronic gear inside from an EMP blast) And why not have EPM mines all over or protected in the walls of the docking area to be ready for a sentinel invasion..?/?????

I would love your opinions on all this.

Da'Yeyinde

Crazy Alien Lord
Rank: 8
Posts: 1800

well maybe their lack of technology for that is from the fact that they have to build all of their tech back up from scratch. using little peices left over from before the machines took over.

the armored suits did look like the exosuits from avp2. not like the MAX suits. and other then being larger then humans the aliens suit and the suits from matrix have very little simularities in my oppinion

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

It seems pretty similar to the power loader. Really the only similarities I see to the MAX armor is that they are both armed powered armor, the similiarities pretty much end there. The MAX looks more akin to a battlemech from mechwarrior, while the units from Matrix (PET units, I think they were called), look more like power loaders. The main difference is in the MAX armor, you are completely surrounded by armor. It is literally like a suit of armor all around you. With the power loader and PET units, it's more like you are strapped to the front of the machine, you are not really inside it.

Probably the reason for the external belt-fed ammo is for ease of reloading. It is a lot easier for someone to reload the ammo if it is stored on the back than it would be to reload the guns directly. It also keeps the reloaders out of the line of fire. Also, you can store a lot more ammo on the back than you could in clips in the gun. Clips are good for normal weapons because they can be reloaded by the user, but the PET units don't like agile enough to quickly reload a clip on their own. Most modern helicopter turrets and airplane machine guns are belt-fed from an internal magazine, it's just not practical to store the ammo inside the gun itself like in rifles.

As for them not having the guns shoulder mounted or back mounted, having them held like that offers a lot larger range of motion. Of all the joints in the human body, the shoulder has the largest range of motion. You can move it in almost any direction. Combine that with an elbow joint and you can aim the guns just about anywhere. That includes ahead of you, straight down, striaght up, to the sides, even behind you. You could never have that kind of range of motion in a shoulder mounted or back mounted weapon.

As for not putting the command center in a faraday cage, there are serious limitations to a faraday cage. It's true a faraday cage can protect from an EMP. However, any electric line passing through the faraday cage will carry the power spike into the cage, frying the electronics. The lines controlling the doors, the lines controlling the turrets, communications lines, power lines, radio antennas for communicating with the ships, all of those will allow the EMP to get inside the faraday cage and destroy electronics. A faraday cage would work, but they wouldn't be able to control anything or communicate.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

From: [RT] Dragon Commando:

They don't need a faraday cage to protect electronics the electronics can be shielded with a coating that will cut out any and I mean ANY interference (EMP,Radio,Cellular,ect)
this will not block comunications just interference.

and having clips on a gun that large would be rediculas the clips would litaraly weigh a ton!

Da'Yeyinde
Rank: 8
Posts: 392

Well I don't think the ammo could possibly weigh a ton, since they man handled them onto carts and pushed them out to the awaiting mech fighter things.
Having a belt feeder has soo many hazards attached to it. It may look cool for the movie but in actual practice, the ammo would have ended up tripping the mech warriors (pet operators), belt fed ammo has a great rate of jamming, and a slower rate of fire vs linkless ammo.
Also shoulder mounted gives better accuracy than arm mounted.
AND a hand held has to be smaller vs a larger weapon that can be shoulder mounted. Hand held with that much fire rate is like a shotgun effect, not very accurate.
I have a great source for info on this stuff.
Lets keep this going, I am sorry I made the reference to the MAX unit. I am only familiar with the comic version and the book version of it.

Da'yeyinde


TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

Quote:
They don't need a faraday cage to protect electronics the electronics can be shielded with a coating that will cut out any and I mean ANY interference (EMP,Radio,Cellular,ect)
this will not block comunications just interference.



I would like to hear more about this coating. I have done quite a bit of research into EMP's and the only way I have found to protect against them is to harden the electronics. This sort of coating you mention doesn't make logical sense to me, either. EMP's, cell phones, radio communications, they are all the exact same thing -- radio waves. The only difference is in the data in the signal. That's why you can't have more than one system broadcasting in the same frequency in the same area, the recievers cannot tell them apart. In order for this coating to block out all radio waves but the ones you want, it would have to know something about the signals you are looking for (it's general waveform, frequency, etc). This would require a computer to process and extract only the signals you want. If it wasn't exactly right some noise would still get through. But to hook up the material to a computer would be to expose the computer to the EMP, exactly what you are trying to avoid. And a coating would not stop EMP's travelling through electrical lines no matter what properties is has, so that would still be a vulnerability. So if you can explain to me exactly how this coating blocks any radio waves except the ones you specifically want, including unwanted radio waves of the same frequency as the desired ones, I would really like to know. I work with digital signal processing in the lab I work at, and even our computers have a hard time filtering out noise signals in our equipment and we know what sort of general signal we are looking for. That sort of coating would make our work a hell of a lot easier.

As for handheld guns being less accurate and having more recoil, remember that they are mounted on computerized arms. These arms can be specifically designed to filter out small hand motions and tremors in the user and to counteract any recoil, making them just as accurate as a body-mounted gun. Sure humans may be more accurate with a body mounted gun, but these robots are not human, they do not have our limitations in terms of strength and stability. Also, it would be easier to aim arm-mounted guns. I din't see a HUD on the PET units, so it might be more difficult to aim an off-center gun like it would be if it was back mounted. The guns in the design they used could be aimed as naturally as any hand-held gun.

yeth
Rank: 0
Posts: 234

Yes, the ammo might not weight a ton, but the clip itself weights alot too. But it's true that belt-feed has alot of problems, but it also is easier to use for large amounts of ammunition (Think of Mg's).

It's harder to shoot from a gun that is mounted to your body with out proper aiming interference, because if you have well desinged gun (like modernday guns) it is natural to sight down the axis of the gun. And the pilots would require less training because they are used to shoot weapons in the "normal" way.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

the actual electronics are coated not the ricevers, the ricevers could easaly be emp shealded with brakers that will trip and reset as soon as triped. an emp wave is not a radio band frequncy. it is a magnetic feild or wave that disrupts electronics the coating will shield the electronics from magnetic interfirence. radio interfirence is also removed by this coating becaus radio interfirence can directly efect electronics even electronics that dont have recivers.

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

An EMP is a radio band signal. It is a high-power pulse of electromagnetic radiation in the radio frequency. You are right, it is an intense magnetic field, but it is propogated and absorbed by targets in the form of radio waves (or microwaves). Check out this page. And I am well aware of the fact that radio signals can interfere with equipment that lacks radio recievers. The radio waves can induce current in any conductive material. An EMP is really just a very intense form or radio interference, after all.

I think the coating you are talking about is hardening, the same thing we are talking about. Yes, you could theoretically harden the command center. However, any system outside the command center would be destroyed, inlcuding the guns, communications equipment, sensors, door controls, PET units -- anything useful would be fried by the power spike caused by the EMP. So basically you would have a command center with nothing to command, it would be completely isolated and pretty much useless. So what is the point? And that is assuming the power source or wiring isn't destroyed by the EMP.

TIKI
Rank: 0
Posts: 1176

Did you know that nuclear explousion causes a EMP wave (am sure you know but still...).

yeth
Rank: 0
Posts: 234

I think nuclear explosion causes EMP only when blown in high stratosphere, might be wrong. It might be just that when you blow it high it affects the largest area.

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

I am not sure, but I think it has to be somewhat high, I think 30 miles or so produces optimal results.

However, you don't need a nuclear weapon to create an EMP, there are a number of other ways.

TIKI
Rank: 0
Posts: 1176

Can you name any, this is intresting?

J..here....
Rank: 0
Posts: 71

[well those "mechs" from matrix were APU. ."armored personel unit" ... if that helps..

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

I can, but I don't know how most of them work so don't ask me to explain them.

Explosively pumped flux compression generator, MHD generators, viricators, spark gap devices, relativistic klystrons, magnetrons, slow wave devices, and reflex triodes. Some of those are high power microwave weapons, a class of related weapons that may have higher lethality than conventional RF EMP's.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

you can easaly coat the guns switches and every other device with it an your fine. Radio waves and Emp are on a deferent band, emp is a magnetic pulse not a radio pulse a radio pulse would fry recivers and not destroy any thing that does not have a reciver. emp sends a high level magnetic field thrugh any conducter so even vehicles with simple wiring would be destroyed. All of the above is from Dragon commando.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

You want a funny way to create an electro magnetic pulse, simple take a metale object and put it between two tranformers, it's not just a trick from the movie small solders it works but it doesn't have that big an efect on anything because the tranformers arent strong enough. Trust me this work, I've seen it done on a show called real T.V. Also a nuckler device always creates one but the U.S. has war plans to detonat them at high altitudes to create electromagnetic pulses. this is actualy a counter attack plan.

TIKI
Rank: 0
Posts: 1176

Wow cool! hmmmm what to you mean by transformers?

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

Quote:
you can easaly coat the guns switches and every other device with it an your fine. Radio waves and Emp are on a deferent band, emp is a magnetic pulse not a radio pulse a radio pulse would fry recivers and not destroy any thing that does not have a reciver. emp sends a high level magnetic field thrugh any conducter so even vehicles with simple wiring would be destroyed. All of the above is from Dragon commando.



Did you read the article I put the link for? EMP's ARE radio pulses, just read the article if you do not believe me. Radio waves can be absorbed by any conductive material, not just radio recievers. This includes wires, even metal objects like pipes and armor. That is why radio waves can cause interference in equipment that doesn't have recievers (like you yourself said). As I said before, magnetic pulses ARE radio pulses, they are the same thing. If you need the link again it is here

Even if you were to coat the guns, and every little tiny bit of wiring in the entire facility, and the doors, (which of course would be very expensive and difficult to do, especially for a group with very limited resources) you still have the communication and sensor array which cannot be shielded. The doors would be useless because you can't tell who is coming. The guns wouldn't be able to target enemies without sensors. You would not be able to communicate with your troops. You wouldn't be able to tell that the enemy is coming until it is right on top of you. It still wouldn't help that much.

Razortech Xeno ...
Rank: 0
Posts: 349

Do you believe every thing you read? I think so considering you still believe that site.

All copyrights and trademarks belong to their respective owners. This site is for the promotion of selected material, no infringements are intended. All reasonable efforts have been taken to credit the respective owners and/or authors.

AbsoluteGamerzNetwork

Cookie Policy | Privacy Policy