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Female Predator Essay


Forum: AvP Universe
Everything that makes up the worlds of Aliens, Marines and Predators.
Topic: Female Predator Essay
Total Posts: 18

SM
Rank: 8
Posts: 241

I'm not a big Predator fan, but I found this essay both interesting and well written (despite the odd spelling error).

However there seemed to be something of a flaw in the argument with this paragraph...

Quote:
Steve Perry also insinuates that the females are more physically agressive then the males. Again, this just doesn't make any sense. We have seen how agressive the males already are...now imagine something even meaner. Now, can you imagine that female caring for her young, especially when they're crying, teething (tusking?), soiling their diapers, and demanding to be fed. Perry's Predators wouldn't live past age 2.



Correct me if I'm wrong but a great deal of mothers of a great deal of species have an overriding desire to protect their young. I'm sure a Predator mother would have no trouble in judging the difference between belting a mate and disciplining an infant. Just because they COULD kill an infant with one blow doesn't mean they WOULD. A lot of humans could kill an infant with one blow. Fortunately most don't.

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

There are some things I disagree with. The main is your argument about earth's the male-dominated societies. Although that is the most common society in vertabrates, it is by no means the only one. There are plenty of examples where females are larger and control mating. Also, you are basing this on earth rules, which may or may not apply to an alien species. So that is not really a valid argument, there are plenty of exceptions and our rules might not apply.

If the planet was teeming with predator species, it might have been benificial for the females to be larger to protect the community while the males were out making kills. To protect the home, the females needed a larger share of the food. Communities with larger females would be more likely to survive, and females would have grown larger. Communities with smaller males would have been beneficial as well as more food could go to the protective females. Also, in AvPvWvD and AvP DOTS, the female predator also has dread locks and ornaments, so it would appear based on those that the female picks the male and the male picks the female, so they both have to appear fit, so large females would have evolved. There is no reason not to believe this. Also, predator society is based on hunting. If we take what the book says, females select the males who are the best hunters. Now in the case of predators, the best hunter is not necessarily the largest, it is the one the has the most and best kills and survives the longest. There is no evidence to indicate predators fight among each other for mates, it is more likely they hunt for mates. I think this is probably how it has been all along, predators hunted dangerous creatures creatures on their home world to prove their reproductive fitness. Eventually, they moved to other worlds. But this does not necessitate more fit predators being larger. And as stated before, females could have evolved to be larger and more aggresive like a number of earth species have. Also, it is entirely possible that predator females have very different responses to predator males and to predator children. You don't see dangerous grizzly and polar bear mother killing all their children even though they can be very aggressive towards males of their species and to other species.

As for the novel, the continuity troubles are based off the comics, so you can't blame the author for that. Also, those continuity problems don't arise until later books, which are by different authors than Prey. I also do not see how war and hunter's planet are mutually exclusive, it looks to me that hunter's planet takes place a few years after war, and there is really nothing keeping that from working. Actually, some events in hunter's planet are the direct result of war, such as shorty hating noguchi, noguchi somehow being back with the humans after leaving in prey, etc. And there is no inner pred monologue in the any comics, I don't see this as a reason why there can't be some in the novels. There is a lot more room in the books to do that sort of thing, plus it would just seem out-of-place in the comics while it works well in the books. I do not see any reason why that book should not be taking at least as some evidence.

Then AvP DOTS. If a human can leave human society, why can't a pred leave pred society? That is what big momma apparently is, a pred who abandoned the pred way. That means there is no reason she shouldn't train humans to help her get her kids back. And I also do not see the big problem with pred/human/alien hybrids, it is really not all that outlandish in the universe.

AvPvDvW was, I admit, not that great, but it is at least somewhat established that aliens can take on the characteristics of what they implant, so that is not all that outlandish. It is probably, in my opinion, the 3rd worst alien or pred crossover, but some of the crossovers with DC were very well done in my opinion, and is sort of commonplace now.

As for the problem with aliens being the pred's first prey, they aren't Killing an alien is a preds innitiation into manhood. It is a test after what is probably a long period of practice and training. Only the preds who are strong enough and skilled enough and well trained enough even survive. So yeah, an alien being a pred's first prey would be stupid, but all indications are against that. And as for preds using guns against aliens, the guns are one-shot things, and the aliens must be so dangerous that preds consider that a balanced weapon to use. Remember that preds don't match their prey exactly, they alwasy try to keep a little edge. Indications are that young preds are not supposed to have camosuits on alien hunts, perhaps they were salvaged, who knows how they get them, but unblooded are not supposed to have camosuits if I remember correctly.

So I see no real reason to disregard the comics and book, especially AvP Prey, and I see really nothing substantial that contradicts them, so I would have to go with the larger female idea. The idea of females ruling pred society is something else intirely, evidence points directly agains that.

Nostromo
Rank: 7
Posts: 76

so, BlackCat, you going to submit COUNTER-essay or write your own??

SM
Rank: 8
Posts: 241

I was about to ask the same thing. Most of it's already written.

Anonymous
Rank: 0
Posts: 0

Man Blackcat that was one really long post but you did manage to show us your point with some proof. Counter essay that would be interesting to read.

Z-man
Rank: 0
Posts: 1

Hey guy's , this is my first post, I'm a big fan of everything's Predator just so you know. Anyway I've e-mailed Mr.Reilly about his essay on Pred Females also included in the e-mail was a link to a site that I frequent that has Predator/Predator Females and Alien statues/model kits, The models of Pred Females support Mr. Reilly's essay in that Pred Females are smaller than there male counter parts. Here is the link
http://members.fortunecity.com/bucwheat/pred/predator.html

Also, Mr. Reilly the website in the link is not mine though I do frequent the site alot .

Nostromo
Rank: 7
Posts: 76

Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but a great deal of mothers of a great deal of species have an overriding desire to protect their young. I'm sure a Predator mother would have no trouble in judging the difference between belting a mate and disciplining an infant. Just because they COULD kill an infant with one blow doesn't mean they WOULD. A lot of humans could kill an infant with one blow. Fortunately most don't.



Agreed--a characterisitic of most civilised/developed-socially entities is the ability to exercise self-restraint.

Nostromo
Rank: 7
Posts: 76

Since I don't see the essay's author anywhere [ ] we'll post the replies he sent in to Demi. Below is Ben's reply:

Blackcat, I'm sorry, but it seems you missed some of the points of my essay.

For one thing, you start by siting AvPvWvD and AvPOTS as evidence that females have dreadlocks, ornaments and such. I made it clear in my essay that these sources are not valid. If you want to use those examples to support your claim, you're going to have to validate why they should be accepted as canon (and good friggin' luck with the Witchblade/Darkness crossover)

Quote:
There is no evidence to indicate predators fight among each other for mates, it is more likely they hunt for mates.



yeah, that's exacly what I put IN MY ESSAY. I said that a long, long time ago, before hunting was developed as a means for mate selection, the Predators probably fought each other, just as is seen in so many other species. Such as humans. But instead of females being attracted to wealth, or uniform, or movie-star good looks or whatever, Predator females evolved to be attracted to mates that display the best trophies. Sorry, I thought I made that clear.

Now, about your point about the females not being smaller by virtue of it being an alien species. This arguement has been been made by many, but it's fallacy is that you don't have the grounds to make that statement. Everything evolves into the form it's in because of environmental pressures. The females didn't have these pressures. As I said in my essay, it would be nice for the females to be giants and fight off tigers (ect.) from their community with their bare hands, but most likely they'd just build a wall around their village. It's more effective, it takes less energy then bulking up, and it takes waaaaaay less time then evolution does. The males, who are out gathering food and trophies, couldn't develop a static defense like a wall, so they had to rely on their natural prowess and weapons. Therefore, the males would grow bigger. You can't argue logic with "They're Alien, so the rules are different!" if the rules are so different for them, tell me how they're different, and why you believe the are that way. All we know from the movies is that their world evolved a sentient, tool-making bipedal humanoid, so it can't be THAT different from ours.

Also, it should be pointed out that there is safety in numbers. The females would undoubtedly be protecting their homes while the men were out, but even if the females were no bigger then human females, what Predator would willingly attack a group of 30 females? with spears? I see females needing to actually fight to protect themselevs mabye three times a year, while the males go out and deliberately put themselves in danger almost every other day.

On female agression: Predators are not like bears. While I can understand that they would have a protective "mothing" instinct, there are limits. Perry's females are implied that they would throw you across the room just as soon as they'd look at you. This kind of behavior is evident of some kind of roid-rage psychosis, even by Predator standards. Indeed, a mother grizzly is nothing you want to piss off, but it doesn't stomp through the forest uprooting trees and mangling whatever's in it's path.

As for AvP: Prey, we'll start with continuity. Check out the "Aliens Timeline" site hosted by AbsoluteAvP for a full list of the problems with it. One that you mentioned yourself, Blackcat, is that in Hunter's Planet Shorty hates Noguchi. I've read both comic and novel forms of War, and I know that Shorty dies in both versions.

Alien/Human/Predator hybrids aren't outlandish? ok, to put that in perspective, look at a sample of each species' blood. Acidic yellow, phosphorecent green, and dark red. Think of the kind of chemistry going on at a cellular level to produce those effects. Now, is there any chance you could see these different body chemistries working as one? the Alien isn't even carbon-based!

In A: Res, we saw that it took years of work and 7 failed attempts to produce Ripley using the most advanced science from over 200 years in the future of DOTS. And even then, she was flawed. Look at the Newborn, how messed up it was on every level, and then try to cram Predator genes into the mix as well. The best you could hope for is one of the aborted fetus-creatures seen in the tubes in the "1-7" room.

AvPvWvD, it's not the DNA reflex that I have a problem with. What I have a problem believing is that a magical imp created through an act of will on the part of the Darkness, has DNA to absorb at all. Personally, I doubt it would have a chest cavity to incubate in.

Sorry Blackcat, but on the Alien-hunt think, I think you're wrong. Perry states pretty clearly that Aliens are the hunter's first real hunt (and no amount of training is a substitue for experience) and that Predators consider humans more dangerous prey then Aliens. The one shot-gun idea doesn't make much sense...not only have we seen them firing them like pulse rifles, but in the novel Dachande even states at one point that his burner is running low on fuel. The Camosuits: The Pred ship was destroyed during the explosion, so much that everything inside was incinerated. The young Preds would have had to be wearing the suits at the time they were preparing to hunt the Aliens. It's just something dumb about the story that piles up all the other reasons to not accept Prey as canon.

Thank you SM for the praise, and BTW, what was the spelling error? I sent it out in email format and didn't bother with a spell check.

If this starts a flame war (after writing this post, I'm looking nervously in Blackcat's direction ) then so be it. I still don't see any reason why females should be considered larger then males

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

I'm not going to start a flame war, I will just repeat I disagree with your analysis and have already explained why. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be bigger than females, and there indications that they are bigger from several official sources, so I have to go with them being bigger. We disgree, we've stated our reasons, lets leave it at that.

I definitely don't want a flame war, and I don't see how disagreeing with you automatically makes me someone who wants one. I was just trying to have an intelligent discussion on the subject.

SM
Rank: 8
Posts: 241

No need for any flaming, please continue to civilly disagree chaps.

Nevermind the spelling errors in the article. There were about half a dozen very minor typos which I've corrected (hope you don't mind).

SteveE
Rank: 0
Posts: 1

Um, I just thought of something you guys. Has anyone thought that the purpose of the Hunt was not to attract mates, but seriving as a recreational outing? I mean, think of it, fellas, the Predators aren't too different from human beings, psychologically. Predators hunt creatures weaker than them with sophisticated weaponry. Sounds a lot like hunting for sport to me, which humans do as well. And in a sense, yes, it is done for honor and respect, both humans and predators hunt for those purposes. And people take trophies and mount deer heads and other animal heads on the walls for those real challenging kills, as do the predators. This may help in attracting a mate for the predators, but I don't believe that's the main reason for the Hunt.

Well, what about the end of Predator? Well, I'm not so sure that was an honor fight, now that I'm thinking about it. The predator knew he was like 50x stronger than Dutch "The Man" Schaefer, and Dutch was obviously outmatched. It was more of an insult to Dutch, because the predator was basically saying, "I can beat you with one hand behind my back."

Well, what about the end of Predator 2? That was where the honor gig came from. The Pack Leader had given Harrigan the pistol as a sign of respect for defeating the young hunter.

Now, I would have to agree with Ben Reilly, author of the "On Predator Females" article, where evolution practically ensures that females are not bigger than the males. Also, we really know almost nothing of the predator heirarchy, except that Predator Hunting Parties have Pack Leaders in them. Anything from the comics and novels could be possible (except for the larger female thing, dont believe that for a sec), but they should be taken only with a grain of salt, since the only thing we have that's canon are the movies and the games.

There's my two cents.

Preliator
Rank: 0
Posts: 327

Okay heres how I've come to understand it fellas hunting for the Yautja is mostly not recreational although somtimes it is, It is a status or rank amoung their society at the same time proving they are worthy for a female. In AvP: prey (real book) It says spacifically how the main pred in the story was knocked to the ground when a female walked by and diddn't even notice she had "bumped" him, this implies the females are very large, the book also comes right out and says the females are much bigger than the males.
Doom on aliens

TheBlackCat
Rank: 0
Posts: 541

I don't think anybody debates that fact. The real disagreement is whether such a society is possible.

Preliator
Rank: 0
Posts: 327

Perhaps, but probably not, It's FICTION in its purest

Skar'ku_Mar'kel-ja
Rank: 0
Posts: 1940

Ah fiction. how i admire her. you have to agree that fiction is one of the humans best creations!

Shadow Drone
Rank: 0
Posts: 270

I dont really believe that the female pred is bigger and meaner. They abviously arent that important on the hunt. In predator 2 there is not a single female pred anywhere. The ship is full of males. They are probably just on the home plantet taking care of the young. But then again they would also have to raise the adolescense and probably teach them how to use their tools of the hunt. So this would be a tough thing to deal with, a bunch of over eager preds willing to kill to be added to a clan and be recognised as an accomplished hunter.

the_demigod
Rank: 9
Posts: 1759

But if the Pred's civilisation was matriarhial, then the females COULD be bigger, meaner, smarter and the males would be simply walking testosterone sacks with sperm to be used when the females needed them.
Other than that the males would be sent out, to "hunt" so they wouldn't bother the females that RAN the civilisation....

Skar'ku_Mar'kel-ja
Rank: 0
Posts: 1940

Good idea demi nice rebuttle!!
and shadow drone? do you have proof that females stay back on the homworld just to take care of young ones and cook and clean etc?!! BS!!
i know of a few Fics mine included that have the females joining the hunt alaing with the males!!!

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