He he, this may be getting out of hand - aren't we supposed to be discussing Sci-fi here? Alas, I cannot stop myself - I'm an ex cavalry IFV commander, and tanks I can talk about all night.



That's right, diesel is not combustible (In normal atmospherical conditions, that is), only flammable. And if the enemy is close enough to hit the rear of the tank with a LAW, the tank will be damaged wether it has external fuel tanks or not. But it won't be destroyed, unless you have a lot of rockets, hit the top armor or got a lot of luck.



Another thing to remember: The american M1A1 Abrams entered service armound 1985. Until then, the soviet's tanks had been superior to whatever the NATO countries could offer. Today, russia's T90 is considered quite comparable to most modern MBT's.



About the ALICE: If you don't make it acid-proof, it problably won't last long against the aliens. At least, you will stay alive a bit longer than you would without it. And that is viable for everything the humans have - if you don't acid-proof it, it won't last. The xenos'll just bleed you to death (litterally).



It is strange that humans don't have means to detect a cloaked predator in the alien universe, already today we have infrared, thermal, vibrasion and heartbeat detectors. To the very least, human should be able to build a device similar to the predator's mask, and clothing that adapts to the surroundings. Hell, we should be able to build our own hunters.



Although, if the yautja really got pissed off, threw their hunting gear away and dressed for war, we'd probably get our sore behinds thoroughly kicked.



[ This message was edited by: ShadowDancer on 2002-05-21 07:13 ]

Yeah it is rather strange that humans don't use their own vision modes.. in Aliens we actually see them using IR lenses.



Anyway... acid blood really hasn't been given enough attention in AvP2, it does practically no damage and you have to actually stand on the corpse to get hit by any. Exosuits have also been criminally overpowered-- in Aliens the bugs were actually able to tear holes in the APC, so methinks an exosuit wouldn't last long. And the acid burnt through several decks of a starship, and methinks Suits aren't even that durable. Oh well! Role on Primal Hunt...

ahh, a chance to analyse USCM equipment....



anyone wanna write an essay on the weaknesses of USCM technology??



Shadow: the main difference between Soviet and other countries' tanks [US, UK, france] is the Chobham armour that the Russians haven't yet sussed out correctly.

my favourite brute is the Israeli Merkava [although I'd had discussions with ex-tank people in other forums about it already and they argued its NOT the best...]

[ This message was edited by: the_demigod on 2002-05-21 19:29 ]

Well I don't see how it would be able to detect a skilled pred remember they are cold blooded so they have the same heat as the surrondings. They also have quite a few vision modes and even their own motion auto aiming thing so you can hide your body heat but this don't move or make a sound.

AvP2 is a game and as most games go they are unrealistic but a acid proof Alice with a little more firepower could survive for a sort while. I know nothing of tanks so I can't say anything about Russian tanks.

For one thing, Preds aren't cold blooded. If they were, they'd laze around all day and certainly wouldn't be able to run down Arnie & co like they did in the films. Besides, cold-blooded animals show up perfectly well in Thermal in comparison to their surroundings-- cold-blooded just means they can't control their own body temperature and must rely on other sources-- ie. the sun: they don't actually have cold blood.

AvP2 is indeed a game and thus unrealistic-- the Preds should give off infra-red signatures, just like humans. The hand of the Predator stood out when it picked up the dead scorpion, if I remember rightly.



Anyway, an acid-proof exosuit isn't really an eventuality-- they're built for combat against other humans. Quite apart from their acid blood, an alien could rip the suit open with their bare hands.

But doesn't the preds mask filter most non body heats sources and if its really hot the pred would become warm if he was cold blooded and he would start giving off heat which his mask wouldn't filter because it woudl think it was body heat or something (one really half ass theory I know but if that doesn't work I go back to my preds are alien theory).

You should really consider using commas and short your sentences down, cliff. It's really hard to understand where you're heading with that post.



Actually, I think acid-proofing could go a long way. If you had a squad of acid-proof, highly trained marines in MAX-armor, they would be able to shoot the xenos off each other before they could do much damage to the exosuits. Of course, if one hundred pissed-off aliens suddenly dropped down on them from the roof or sutchlike, the marines would probably be happily torn apart regardless of what they're wearing.



Anyway, you faithful readers of the alien graphic novels have probably noticed that humans develop an acid proof combat armor after a while, plus anti-alien high caliber guns. They use this equipment to invade a hive, aming other things. However, it should be noted that the tech and weapons in the alien franchise is probably based on how they contribute to the story and atmosphere, and not on realism. The firepower and gear of the marines in Aliens is almost similar to that of today's modern infantrysquads. For example, H&K G11 (although experimental) assault rifle have a magazine capasity of 50 rounds caseless ammunition.



I have to admit, using projectile firearms we easily can relate to in the movies really make them more exiting than if they had used "laser" guns or somesuch.

[ This message was edited by: ShadowDancer on 2002-05-22 17:31 ]

Now I know how DP feels.

But what would happen if the MAX-armour boys shoot each other when they want to shoot the aliens off of each other.

The best weapon is bio warfare, you infect one and let it spread. Who needs tanks when all you do is drop a few chem bombs and they die off as it spreads. but the only armour that would stop those suckers is quantum foam, its acid proof, it will stop the preds weapons and it's light as a feather.

The problem with MAX armor is your certifiable after only a short while in it. Its an effective weapon, unstoppable to aliens with acid-proof and alien-proof armor and plenty of weapons, but a normal person cannot use it for a useful amount of time and expect to come out of it alright. The alternative is a Dean-type anti-alien synth, all the benefits of MAX armor with none of the drawbacks. I don't know why they don't use those more (they are probably pretty expensive, that may be why).

I don't think it would matter much whether you are in a tank or not. In predator: Dark River the predator wrist blades cut through tank armor like it was tissue paper. I might actually prefer being out of the tank, the pred seemed to target it first so I might live 30 seconds or so longer if I am out of it. Aliens also always tend to attack the larger percieved threat, so I would guess they would attack a tank before attack foot soldiers.

According to the books predator cloaking systems are effective against infra-red as well as optical radiation, so I would assume they are effective against UV as well. Cloaked predator ships are also never detected by human radar, so I doubt millimeter wave radar would be effective against cloaked predators. LIDAR is of course useless because it depends on IR, optical, and UV radiation. The only alternative is ultrasound, like motion trackers, which according to the comics can detect predators. However, I doubt it has the resolution to use for actually targetting predators, it would probably only tell you they are around. Also, if predators new you were using motion trackers they could probably move slowly enough to get past them undetected. Predator helmets have special lenses that render cloaked predators and predator ships visible. Its easy enough to say humans should have that too, but predators have lots technology humans lack and can't seem to reproduce. Remember predators usually don't leave anything behind for people to investigate (they either blow themselves up or get picked up by other preds).

Whyle we are at it, why not but jets and choppers at it?

I think tanks and exos are enough. The is a lot of stuff in here that i didnt know about .... keep on about the aliens/preds vs tanks/armor/exos/infantry.

Dont thing so realy. What hell off a marines and corporates are those ho have dropships, APC, exos, f... big spaceships. But still dont have tanks, jets/figters, choppers. For cryng out loud the year is some 2400 or something. They better have those things in AVP3!!!!

Putting vehicles in a game is not as easy as it sounds. The levels have to be specifically designed to use them, plus there are balancing issues, control issues, physics issues, weapons issues, etc that have to be worked out. Plus you have to work out a way to limit how many and what vehicles they can use, or everbody will be driving around in tanks. It is even worse when its a multiplayer game and the opposing sides, especially the Aliens, don't have corresponding vehicles they can use to fight back with. For instance, how is an alien ever supposed to fight a jet or a helicopter? Or in a small scirmish how can a couple alien expect to take on a heavily armed tank? It may sound like a good idea at first, but I really don't think general vehicles would work.

Balancing issues are always a problem. I grudgingly admit that - i HATED giving up the Scorpion in halo, but you've got a point there black cat.
Maybe, for the alien vehicle thing, there will be an alien class that can burrow into a tanks hull, into the driver, and take it/her/him over (it's only a slight facehugger modification ^.^)? Or, maybe the tanks have trouble targeting the aliens for some reason or another, blasting huge chunks out of everything but the alien - allowing it time to jump up on the hull, pull the driver out, and bite its/her/his head off?

Make the alines stronger, bigger and a new class. I think that would bee enoughf!?

they'd have to be strong enough to withstand a hit from the main cannon so many tanks boast...
armor doesn't really matter there :S

That still doesn't work out the control issues, having to design the levels specifically for the vehicles (close-in combat would be impossible with vehicles), thephysics issues, and the problems of how to limit how people get vehicles.

i didn't say it did

Sorry, I was more answering Tiki's question

Quote:

I think that would bee enoughf!?