I noticed that thing about AvP2 vs RTCW.. nazi bashers really aren't my thing, be they fantastical or historical (Medal of Honour), but when it comes to sci-fi first person shooters, i know a fair bit =P (though from what i've seen, RTCW's graphics are SHIT.. particularly in comparison with AvP2)



So, the most famous FPS ever made versus one of 2001's best. What says ye? (i'll say what i think if anyone posts a reply...)

It seems that everyone who hasn't actually played RTCW thinks the graphics are bad - in truth they are some of the best around in my opinion. The resolutions only go up to 1280 x 1025, but come on, the graphics dont get any better in AvP2 on a higher resolution than that. Everyone who as actually sat in front of their PC for hours on end marvelling at RTCW though, seems to agree that it is much better.



As for AvP2 vs HL, WTF? No contest

AvP2 = 4 evenings play.

HL = endless (MP mods *cough* CS, TFC *cough* 0wnz j00)

You wanna compare screenshots? I play AvP2 on lowest resolution to ease up the framerate, but the detail and lighting in screenies is vastly superior to the screenshots I've seen of RTCW.



As for Half-Life... is an endless passage of sterilized tunnels really what you call good?

And forgive me if I'm wrong but the mods weren't part of the package, were they? If AvP2 had been the one released then, it would have as many mods as HL does now, and if HL was released now, it would be dismissed as an overly long game with unimaginative enemies (except the Tentacle Beast) and a dull story with no finality in its ending.

Erm...TFC IS included with HL

And endless passages of sterilised tunnels

And what does the difference in release time make for MODs? If anything, AvP2 should have more MODs springing up than HL due to the success of the HL modding scene and the aging (sp?) of the game, getting on 4 years.

And, erm, yes HL WOULD be labelled as unimaginative if released 2day because everything SINCE has copied it.



I played AvP2 on lowest graphics settings on my old machine and it crawled along like a two-legged, rabid dog. They both run beautifully on my new machine, but even so the AvP2 plot is rediculous, HL had several good plot twists, the revelation of the scientists secret exploration of the alien world, the Government trying to kill you, not to mention the amazing set pieces that every FPS since had tried to copy, with only Medal of Honour succeeding at any degree.

how can you say that?!?!



TFC wasn't included with the original game... my point is that the best HL mods (CS etc) were made by third-parties and just because these are good, doesn't make the game itself a work of art.

HL got so much publicity before, during, and even now long after its release (because it was groundbreaking, which is just about all it has going for it. it should be viewed as a cornerstone in FPS evolution, not as the best game ever made [h0nk @ PC Gamer UK] ), that it wasn't much of a surprise that the mod scene immediately sprang up, and continued apace. AvP has for some reason always been rather "niche" and although having a respectable standing with critics and just enough sales to stop it from being dead in the water, it hasn't been given the attention that both games deserved. Additionally the fact that editing tools were released too late for both games have stunted their modding development...

Anyway, none of this is actually important to which is the better game, sooooo



Are you saying the Half-Life plot isn't ridiculous? The AvP2 plot is hard to follow, but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad plot.

As for imagination... i'm talking about the general boringness of the monsters-- has anyone tried to copy the Final Foetus Boss or the green lightning shooting things?, and about the storyline, which if it was sent to a film company would be immediately puked upon.

There's no explanation as to how the scientists suddenly made these leaps in dimensional portal technology, and the ending explains neither who the G-man is, or why the aliens decided to ransack the facility... let alone why the government decided the project was so delicate that the innocents should be killed by the troopers along with the aliens.

And of course every FPS since will copy HL to some extent, because as I said it's a cornerstone, nothing more or less. But it doesn't make it better than the rest.



I found wondering around through grey coridors for hours on end to be a very poor gaming experience, whereas AvP2's missions are short enough to be just right in my opinion, while each level is distinctly different.

Another reason for HL's success is the ease by which levels can be made. The only easier level designer out is the Unreal / Deus Ex SDK.

TFC is practically the 2nd mod which is a team based game, every other mod for half life, apart from Counter Strike is basically, "Forget it if its a team game, just worry bout yourself and just frag!" A... Bollux mod. TFC was ok, but I prefer counter-strike, as it seems for interesting... along with map details and shit. But if AvP3 is more like those 2 games when it comes to teamplay, i think it will woop Half Life and its mods back to hell!!!

RTCW's graphics have to be seen to be appreciated.



HL had:

- a relatively novel storyline

- cool intro sequence which put you right in the MIDDLE ofeverything

- swift level loading

- good monsters

- good level mixture

- interesting yet believable weapons

- Marines that were [in my eyes] revolutionary as opponents

Very true Demi

I think they got those tiny crab like aliens from the facehuggers from the Alien Legacy They seem to be so much alike, dont you think? Plus the aliens are nobs, . Wouldn't it be cool, if since they have the story from Gordons eyes, Security eyes, Marine eyes, perhaps... An Aliens eyes? lol. (original?)

well disagreeing with the admin round here will probably bring me fire & brimstone, but what the hell...



HL had:

- a terrible storyline. nothing was explained as the game played thru (unlike AvP2), and the game finished with a lot of unanswered questions that stopped me, for one, from getting that satisfied feeling completing a game should bring.

- i have to agree, the intro was well done, but so was AvP2's marine campaign

-ridiculous placing for loading levels-- i tended to need to go back to an earlier part of the level, sometimes several times, to complete puzzles, and had to load many, many times. Accidentally stepping backwards could trigger the fatal words "Loading...". AvP2 doesn't ask you to backtrack at all, and after the loading pauses you can conveniently forget about the previous part of the level. And walking backwards conjures no problems.

- Unimaginative monsters. The "lightning thing" was basically a green monstery thing that shot lightning. The alien troopers were.. erm.. yawn-inducing! The head-crabs were facehuggers, minus the one hit kill scaryness, and looking like slow moving turkey roast. The game's only decent enemies were the Tentacle Beast, the Gonarch (pendulous-testicle beast), the Troopers, and the sound-dogs (cos they're so cute )

- Too much of the same in terms of levels-- spend hours wondering around dull grey corridors, with the promise of getting to the surface, and after a long time you eventually see some sunshine, but disappointingly it consists of yet more cramped terrain, except this time with a skybox overhead. Then yet more wondering around grey corridors, and after a very long time get to Zen, which i personally thought was one of the better and more imaginative parts of the game unlike most people. But other than Zen, the subterranean grey corridors dragged on for way too long.

- the normal weapons were okay, nothing special, nothing incredibly poor either, except for the much-hyped "special weapons"-- the hornet gun was useless, and the two "experimentals" ate up ammo too quickly to be any fun.

- as for the troopers, they were one of the better parts of HL with their outstanding AI, which I've only seen bettered in Unreal Tournament. But I didn't like the idea of government troopers coming in to clean up the human survivors because i couldn't really see the point, frankly...



Overall, although groundbreaking and a cornerstone in FPS, as a game it really isn't as good as AvP2. Oh and I *hate* the Quake II engine.

this is probably the wrong forum to discuss this in though..

demi can you plz lock this topic before i get abused? *begs*

An interesting topic, with some interestign replies. I personally am a huge HL fan. Half-Life introduced an original plot - which if you concentrated on, drew you in and wouldnt' let you go. It was the first First Person game that made you feel like the First Person :) It's also a great laugh in multiplayer, which is handy for LANs - everyone's played it by now (or a game based on it), and it's instantly playable. I haven't had a chance to try AvP2 on LAN yet, but it scares me that it won't run quite as smoothly as i'd like.



Don't get me wrong - I love AvP2. I'm a huge alien fan so I love it by default, and the graphics do crap all over half-life (although i'd argue that RTCW is slightly better), but Half-Life means alot to me. I've spent many hours playing that game, and I wouldn't give it up for the world.

I prefer quick short loads instead of a 5 minute massive load.



Storyline of HL vs AvP2?? crap comparison- the games have several years between them and the experience curve of game designers has dramaticaly gone up since HL.



Yawnalot: the Hornet gun is the best of all weapons EXCEPT the MP5. the flying buzzing things were LETHAL when used properly. I managed to get through MOSt of the game with it [once I picked it up anyway].

BTW: abuse is good... keeps the blod pumping.



Interestingly: anyone played HL with the "superhard" patch??

Why is it a crap comparison? Just because it was released a few years earlier doesn't mean it should therefore obviously have a worse storyline (although it does...).



How could you use the hornet gun through most of the game?? It doesn't even work on most of the enemies.



Oh and I guess this should be posted in a different topic but I just played the RTCW demo, and despite the model detail being top-class, I thought it was, in terms of gameplay and fun-factor, the 2nd worst game I've ever played (worst being South Park - The Game).

if that doesn't get people around here angry at me, i don't know what will

Quote:

On 2002-02-20 17:07, the_demigod wrote: Interestingly: anyone played HL with the "superhard" patch??

What superhard patch?

Quote:

So, the most famous FPS ever made versus one of 2001's best. What says ye? (i'll say what i think if anyone posts a reply...)

Dont make me laugh.



Doom.

Quake.

Duke Nukem.

Wolfenstein (original)



I can name about half a dozen more FPS games that are not only more famous than half life, but also better.

1. They're not more famous.

2. Yes they are better. (except Quake-- ugh)

[ This message was edited by: SirYawnalot on 2002-02-21 12:31 ]

God, I don't like any of those !! . FPS games have to be my favourite, and I prefer the normal half life when you play Freeman, instead of the "Blue Shift" and "Opposing Force" single Player add-ons, anyone played the add-on "Case Closed"? I think AvP2 could become better than Half Life itself, but too many people don't even look into the actual game, they take one small glance at a gaming magazine and say; "That game is shit, I wonder whats on the next page?".


Another thing is when they decide not to even bother LOOKING at anything relating to the game. If they improved graphics on it, maybe did a little tweak to the multi player of the Aliens Vs Predator universe, then maybe It could match up to expectations of the award winning HL. Anyways, if someone had already asked me a question of wether I liked AvP-AvP2 more than HL, then my vote would go towards AvP, as I am more intrigued with Aliens, Preds and the marines than a bunch of scientists who made a big mistake and Gordon doing a 1 vs 12,000 aliens and marines on his own and wins! lol.


The security guard single player add on I think was too short, the story line wasn't as good as HL (Original) but the patch for upgraded weapons imporved skins a lot. Especially when it came to the uniforms that the scientists and guards wore, before they all looked a like apart from their race. Atleast now they wear different clothes, . The SPAS-12 feels more power ful now, even though it isn't, but I guess that I am just going crazy? The M16 was a good improvement, .


My favourite one would have to be the original Half life, but Op-Force got close, the marines were ok, but the story line, correct me if you can, looked a lil like the marine in avp and pred in avp2? The other things that I found that caught my eye was the tiny alien thing, you know, the one that looks like a face hugger without a tail? It pounces at you as well!!! .


Anyways, like I said before, if you asked me which game I liked best, I would vote for AvP and AvP2!

Thank you! finally, someone with taste (no offence to all you people who don't have any)



just had an idea.. wouldn't it be groovy if they made a massively-multiplayer AvP game, like Planetside?